Difference between revisions of "User talk:Ngng"

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m (Some partially hidden text experiments)
m (Some partially hidden text experiments)
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* There is a shaking problem in game, but it can be fixed by choosing blend bff interlace mode in gsdx.
 
* There is a shaking problem in game, but it can be fixed by choosing blend bff interlace mode in gsdx.
 
* You need a pretty fast cpu in order to run the game nicely without speedhack since speedhacks don't improve much for the game.}}
 
* You need a pretty fast cpu in order to run the game nicely without speedhack since speedhacks don't improve much for the game.}}
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 +
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Hmm, it might be better if you simply make the collapse/expand thing appear when it's longer than 3 lines maybe. And then without the whole "...".
 +
 +
So you'd get
 +
 +
AAAA BBBB CCCC DDDD EEEE FFFF GGGG HHHH IIII JJJJ KKKK LLLL MMMM NNNN
 +
[Expand] / [Collapse]
 +
OOOO PPPP QQQQ RRRR SSSS TTTT UUUU VVVV WWWW XXXX YYYY ZZZZ
 +
 +
Because right now it would basically cut it off at ''GG..'' and then start ''..GG'' on the next line in the expand window. This looks weird to me. You think it's possible to do it with the way I described? (Not sure if you're still working on this, disregard this message if you are).
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[[User:Ryudo|Ryudo]] ([[User talk:Ryudo|talk]]) 09:24, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 09:24, 4 November 2014

Previously on the air

New Template

I have put up some updates about the plan for a new template on my user page. Please give it a look. Tonygiang (talk) 05:47, 21 July 2014 (BST)

This is not the first attempt to update the template (as you can also see on my page here). When it was created I was torn between "the last tested configuration" template and "the table of all tested configurations" template. It just happened that "the last tested configuration" template was implemented before and was never changed afterwards. The idea was that there aren't so many users to contribute so the one configuration is enough in most cases (especially for some forgotten and rare games) plus the table template would be way more complex for an ordinary user to work with. And finally I've run into the serious lack of time IRL (the state I'm currently in btw).
It's not that easy to update the current template correctly as you can see here it's rather a complex thing. If you're serious about changing it you should make a working test page beforehand (you can use your own user page for that or even create a new test page). Finally I can find some time and help you turn your test page into the new template (if you want my help). And only when we will have the new beautiful working page we can update every game page in existence (and this would also be a hard work because there are so many pages to update).
By the way do you really think that "the table of all tested configurations" template will improve the data collection on the wiki? It will be more readable no doubt about it but I haven't witnessed that many cases of updating or replacing the outdated info. There were some but not so many. And many of those just updated the version to the latest available. The useful thing about this table template is when there is a regression in development leads to broken games you would be able to see it and choose not to use that "bad" version to play the game. But other than that the older entries in this table are for historical or sentimental reasons, IMO. What's your take on this? --Ngng (talk) 07:38, 21 July 2014 (BST)
I could see that was the problem early on, and unfortunately, the single-test case format just creates a mentality of hesitation for newer testers. I used to be one, wondering whether or not I should overwrite the test result of another user when I didn't reproduce the same issue(s) on a different hardware configuration, different OS and different plugins. You know, it's not just replacing outdated testing results (in which case, 1 test case would be enough indeed), but providing various results on varying testing environments as well. I do think rearranging the template to allow multiple test cases will not only improve data collection, but encourage contribution as well.
I have looked into how the Dolphin guys made the testing table for their wiki, which seems adaptable if there's no quirk in either wiki. You can see here that they actually used a combination of 3 separate templates to build the table:
{{testing/start}}
<!--Use this template for test entries: {{testing/entry|revision=|OS=|CPU=|GPU=|result=|tester=}}-->
{{testing/end}}
The documentation can explain itself well enough. It's actually a very ad-hoc method considering their testing/end template simply contains a markup wrap. Their testing/entry template is the glue (and the most intimidating part) of this format, but I'm sure we can adapt this eventually. Tonygiang (talk) 13:02, 21 July 2014 (BST)
Well, lets try to do it then! We can remove some parts from the old template and use the new one alongside with it. This approach from Dolphin guys seems reasonable and easy enough to use so we can adopt it without copying their actual template (it's not so complex anyway). First of all we need to agree on the table columns. A you can see here there was an attempt to do it about two years ago so we can at least take this into consideration. Try creating your own table (without using any templates for the time being) and I'll convert it to templates when we're agreed on its contents. By the way I'll be out of town for 3 days until the end of the week (starting tomorrow) so I won't be able to answer you for some time. --Ngng (talk) 06:06, 22 July 2014 (BST)
A sample table is up on my user page. Tonygiang (talk) 10:23, 22 July 2014 (BST)
I made my own sample on my user page. I used a different table style so it's more compact and has "wiki" colors. I changed the "Sound" row to "CDVD" because I thought knowing what CDVD plugin someone used would be more helpful. I also changed "Comments" to "Speedhacks", because otherwise every test result would just be repeating each other saying things like "audio is desynched".
IMO any comments about issues with the game or comments about what gamefixes to use shouldn't be stated in the table. That way it is more convenient for people that look for these 2 things in the wiki:
  • Whether a game is playable or not.
  • What settings should I use to fix specific issues.
Other people interested in performance of the game will look at the table to see if they can run the game at full speed.
Also more info about "wiki tables" can be found here and here.
--Shunter (talk) 12:43, 22 July 2014 (GMT-5)
The style looks nicer, although it could use a border-collapse style to save some screen space real estate. The sample comment about the issues of the games are just examples of what the testers would have a say on, not what they are obligated to repeat in every entry. They could have some comment about the performance of particular hardware, how far they could push the game above standard testing condition (which is always native resolution and no graphical enhancement), etc... Like you said, it's a performance reference table, but we can only make it so with some space for the testers to tell us about the performance they got, don't we?
I don't think speedhacks need a separate column since as the devs said, test results are assumed to have no kind of hacks enabled (because technically, they are hack-ey by default and could mangle test results, hence not very useful for the devs to look at). Mentioning of speedhacks is only necessary if they generate different results. My terrible example entry did not reflect those things very well and might have given you an impression that speedhacks need to be explicit for every entry. That one example alone should in no way be the guideline to make test entries.
I have no clue about a CDVD plugin column. Are CDVD plugins really complicated to configure or lacking in compatibility that users would find it helpful to have it explicit? Tonygiang (talk) 10:20, 24 July 2014 (BST)
Some games run worse when you try to run them using the disc, so it might be helpful to know whether the tester used an ISO or ran the game through the DVD drive. Although I now think that instead of a CDVD column, that space could be used for something else.

--Shunter (talk) 7:14, 24 July 2014 (GMT-5)


I'm also in favor of having the comments (or result) column because otherwise there are no means of telling whether the game is working or not using this config (we can even color the table cell or the whole line in some light green/red/blue to reflect the result). Any relevant info (like bios, hacks, fps etc.) can also be stored in it. But what about regions (PAL/NTSC(-J))? The games from the different regions may have considerable difference in performance and behavior. --Ngng (talk) 08:08, 25 July 2014 (BST)

Can't we make separate pages for each regional version of the same game, then? That was how the public compatbility list is organized. Several games even have different names in each regions. If not, then the CPU/GPU info could go into the same column, so that there would be 3 factors in environment: os, hardware and region. Tonygiang (talk) 07:45, 26 July 2014 (BST)
Having a number of pages for one game is really not a wise thing to do. We won't even be able to name the pages right (this is ugly: "Fatal Frame NTSC-U", "Fatal Frame PAL", "Fatal Frame NTSC-J") and this will spawn so many duplicates. Besides we'd have to copy most of the issues to all the pages and maintain these pages simultaneously. I can think of a number of additional problems we would face if we'll adopt this approach... --Ngng (talk) 06:32, 27 July 2014 (BST)
I updated my sample table. To match what you guys wanted.

--Shunter (talk) 2:03, 26 July 2014 (GMT-5)

Okay now your tables look very much alike (except for minor differences). I'll dust off my wiki markup knowledge then and make the sample template. --Ngng (talk) 06:32, 27 July 2014 (BST)

I've made three templates: Template:TestingHeader, Template:TestingFooter and Template:TestingEntry (the later has some info about its usage). If you have any ideas just go ahead and edit the templates (we can always revert to any version). --Ngng (talk) 09:18, 27 July 2014 (BST)

I'm really clueless when it comes to wiki templates, but is it possible to have 2 parameters in the same cell? So that the CPU/GPU column can automatically sort them into list? Tonygiang (talk) 13:52, 28 July 2014 (BST)
I think this is the way it's done right now (if I understand you correctly). What really concerns me is how this will look on the games' pages because without any other info and only two tables on the page (game card table on the right pane and this testing table in the middle) it may really look ugly :-\.
What do you think, should we proceed now or should we wait for any other opinions on the testing table (because it will be harder to change it later)? --Ngng (talk) 06:28, 29 July 2014 (BST)
This is what a game page looks like now: http://i.imgur.com/CNov8Qt.jpg
This is what a game page can look like with a table: http://i.imgur.com/YfICe8v.jpg
I used an image editor to make the second image but if you can make the new template look like that, it won't look as ugly. Maybe we should make a post on the PCSX2 forums to get more opinions?

--Shunter (talk) 1:43, 29 July 2014 (GMT-5)

Impressive work, thank you! But I was more concerned about really empty pages save for the test info (without issues and reviews and anything at all). Btw, do you think we should separate test tables on the OS basis?
I'll make the post on the forums and then proceed to apply changes to the old template in a couple of days. --Ngng (talk) 10:41, 30 July 2014 (BST)

New Template (cont.)

What you guys have got so far looks good to me. The only thing I would mention is the lack of a section for input plugins, as I know at least a handful of games require a special configuration of lilypad or a different plugin altogether. I suppose that could go in the comments column though. Good work! --Blyss Sarania

@Ngng I think we should make a separate table for different OSs; I made a separate table for both OSs because it ended up looking better.

--Shunter (talk) 12:27, 30 July 2014 (GMT-5)

Finally managed to get back. Anyway, I don't see why we would need separate table for each OS. Didn't we have a dedicated column for OS already? --Tonygiang (talk) 10:03, 31 July 2014 (BST)
The only thing I would suggest would be a way for someone to add their own comments for unreproducible issues and the like instead of editing the main article, I'm not saying it is needed, but it would be nice. Clank (talk) 02:59, 31 July 2014 (BST)

Sorry, guys, it's been a horribly busy and generally horrible week for me...
On the topic of separate tables: I'd say lets try and separate them (we can always go back to one table it's not that hard). This way it will look a bit better IMO with the OS icons and big headers and the dedicated column will still be used to show OS version.
@Clank: If I understand you correctly you want a special place (column or such) for encountered issues in the test table... I think we have no place left. You can always use comments for anything issue related or you may add them to the main article (to be honest there is a way -- we can use an extra line with merged columns solely for the purpose of registering issues, but it may look pretty bad, idk)
@Blyss Sarania: I think comments will do for the time being, although the time will tell.
I'm gonna make a long time overdue "issue template" today. Should we wait a bit more or should I proceed with the test table? --Ngng (talk) 10:13, 2 August 2014 (BST)

I really like the idea of the new issue template, but I have a question. Is the issue "Fixed" if there's a workaround for it, or can we only mark as "Fixed" if the PCSX2 team makes a fix for the game?
I think we should proceed with the test table, since no one is objecting.

--Shunter (talk) 7:27, 2 August 2014 (GMT-5)

IMO I it should be marked as fixed when it's no longer manifesting itself under the given conditions (for example the minor GFX glitch is gone in GDSX HW because devs fixed it). Otherwise most of the issues will be marked as fixed because they have workarounds. And with all that said I'll proceed with the test table (although I'll better do it tomorrow in the morning when there's a certain itch to do things ;-) ). --Ngng (talk) 14:11, 2 August 2014 (BST)

Update: I've altered issue type so we can add "notes". When the game does not run smoothly without some option activated it's still worth noting somewhere but it's not an issue (if the option is not a hack of course). It least this system is more flexible now.
I can't start working on test tables until I'm finished with updating issues on all game pages. I only hope there aren't so many left... --Ngng (talk) 09:58, 3 August 2014 (BST)

There was a way to apply a category to the whole game list, wasn't there? You could do that right now and roll out the new stub template so that we can gradually convert the pages later. It gives something to generate new stubs from the forum's compatibility list, too.
I'm not keen on the whole separate table for each OS thing. Pcsx2 might be ported to other platforms other than Windows and Linux in the future, then we'd have to make another tweak to the stub template for each new platform. One-size-fits-all table is future-proof, but if i'm out-voted in the matter, got to roll along, I guess. --Tonygiang (talk) 08:59, 5 August 2014 (BST)
I'm almost done with the issues, just a couple of pages of indexed games left. I just don't want to mix these two problems. I understand your concern about table separation. It will be really easy to go back to one table if it will turn out not be as good I promise. --Ngng (talk) 09:41, 5 August 2014 (BST)

New Template (cont.2)

So it's been done. See this page for reference. I don't know what to think about it atm because I need a fresh look (tomorrow), but the first impression is so-so... Maybe it will change tomorrow idk. Please comment and try to convert other pages to see the difference. To convert the page you have to:

  • remove the word game in the line {{infobox game
  • remove the lines starting with <!-- Windows specs --> until the end of template. The last removed line must start with pccomment=
  • add testing tables in a form (using the removed values):
{{TestingHeader|OS=Windows}}
{{TestingEntry
|Status=?
|Region=?
|OS=?
|CPU=?
|GPU=?
|Revision=?
|Graphics=?
|Sound=?
|Comments=?
|Tester=?
}}
...
{{TestingFooter}}

I'm done for today, see you tomorrow... --Ngng (talk) 20:38, 6 August 2014 (BST)

I just updated this page to the new template. IMO it looks alright but the template could use some tweaks. For example, the text in the boxes should be centered. Also the table needs more room width-wise. Is it possible to decrease the width of the "infobox" to increase the width of the tables?
--Shunter (talk) 5:42, 6 August 2014 (GMT-5)
I have a really simple resolution for that: put the testing table at the bottom, below the Known Issues section. That way, it doesn't share page width with the infobox. I've edited the Drakan page as an example. Seems ok for now. --Tonygiang (talk) 06:42, 8 August 2014 (BST)

Sorry guys, I've been swamped again (as always)...
@SHunter: At my 1920x1080 resolution the problem with space deficit is non-existent. :) The table scales automatically right now, but some columns (in fact all but the last one) have fixed width so it may look pretty ugly for some resolutions. I'll try to tune it somehow so to beautify it for smaller monitors... Try to play with column align yourself (IMO this one is alright, but why not try to center to see the difference?). Fiddle with the right panel also. It's mostly defined in the same template.
@Tonygiang: Putting the table after all the info will only work in case we have this info. See for example this page. The table looks fine if it's not swarmed with info like it was with Drakan in my case. --Ngng (talk) 19:03, 8 August 2014 (BST)

I'd say I like it now... Maybe I like it even better than the plain info. I hope it's not too late for that anyway (PCSX2 development is kind of slow for the last 3-4 years, will there be enough "versions" to make use of our new test table)...
To the matter at hand: we can "easily" convert all the empty pages ("easily" being overstatement here) but I believe the amount of work to convert the filled pages is monstrous. To convert the page we have to open its history first and get the tester name. In case there was a previous test info we should go back in time to find it and add this old info to the table as well. Some pages will require a lot of time to transfer and it cannot be done automatically. :(
Old template pages category will show all the pages with the old template (right now it's empty but it should update itself (I hope) if some kind of scheduler runs on PCSX2 server. If it will stay empty it's not a big deal. As a last resort I can ask Bositman to run some wiki related scripts, idk).
I can try to speed up the whole thing by making use of these buttons


I think I'll try it tomorrow, at least we can do it in semi-automatic fashion. --Ngng (talk) 19:51, 8 August 2014 (BST)

http://wiki.pcsx2.net/index.php?action=edit&preload=TempPageForTemplateTransfer&section=new&title=Sega+Superstars+Tennis: this URL will do the same with Sega Superstars Tennis as the button above. I'll exploit PUT method by creating batch file to open edit and history pages for multiple games at once. This method will allow us to speed up edits without wasting time on searching pages... --Ngng (talk) 20:09, 8 August 2014 (BST)


New Template (cont.3)

I've decided to create more universal solution and to write an external utility to convert the old template into the new one (to an extent of course) using clipboard. Basically you have to start the program leave it running while working on pages conversion. Press Alt-Shift-E on a chosen page (it's a shortcut for editing), use Ctrl-A to select all text and Ctrl-C to put it into clipboard. After that you just have to press Shift-Shift (left shift and right shift concurrently) and the program will convert (or try to convert) the text automatically. Get the text from clipboard again (Ctrl-V) and check the result, correct it, add needed info and the tester name (from page history). I've spent the whole day doing some automation stuff for the wiki (and I'm not done yet) and this utility, although may feel like magic to me, could still use some improvement and may also contain a number of bugs. Please test it and leave some feedback. Thanks.
I cannot upload binary files on the wiki pages so I'll do it in this thread. --Ngng (talk) 19:52, 9 August 2014 (BST)

I'm preparing to convert most of the empty pages (and only empty pages) automatically but they would look really empty without any info. What do you think is better to leave them bare like this or put a placeholder table like this? --Ngng (talk) 11:21, 10 August 2014 (BST)

Leave a table, it gives potential testers an idea what goes where. --Tonygiang (talk) 10:11, 11 August 2014 (BST)


Correcting and completing the machine conversions (COMPLETED, no longer needed)

This is a small note on how to correct the auto-converted pages into their finished state (in case you have some time and want to help):

  1. First of all you need to choose a page to correct from this category.
  2. Start editing the page and open the page history simultaneously.
  3. Search through the history (using prev links) and find the author of the last configuration change.
  4. Copy authors name into Tester field
  5. Fill OS field if possible (some comments may contain it)
  6. Fill Status field (0,1 or 2)
  7. Fill Region field if possible (some comments may contain it)
  8. If the older records in history contain previous test information (which was exchanged for the current by the mentioned author), you should add another test case and fill it as well.
  9. If all goes well, remove [[Category:Temp - unverified automatically converted pages]] line from the article and save it
  10. Minus one unfinished article, thank you!


This is a slow process so it will take some time until all these articles are corrected. --Ngng (talk) 10:37, 14 August 2014 (BST)

Congrats on converting every page to the new template. I just wish I could've helped out more but I didn't have the time. -Shunter 12:02, 20 October 2014 (GMT-5)

You still helped a lot with the conversion (and with the template itself) so thank you! And I'm also grateful for putting in a word for me to Bositman! I guess I'd make that blog post about wiki in general and maybe to call out for someone who could re-design the main page and improve the overall look of game articles a little. We'll see what he thinks about it. --Ngng (talk) 07:03, 21 October 2014 (BST)

What is Pokopom?

http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Pokopom-KrossX-s-Pad-Plugin Not sure if it should be added to the wiki but it's an "open source XInput input plugin for PSX emulators, PCSX2, nullDC 1.0.4, Chankast 0.25 and many N64 emulators."

A great alternative to other input plugins, I never used it much though.

And now you know :D

Thanks for the info. :) Now I know... --Ngng (talk) 07:33, 24 August 2014 (BST)

Navbox

Just a test for navbox from Wikipedia...


If anyone has any ideas about this template, please drop a message here. The bottom part of the template is possibly broken right now (Wikipedia uses LUA-driven templates now and we do not have LUA (and honestly we don't need it) so the thing I've stolen from them was not up-to-date). I'll correct it later.

Some partially hidden text experiments

Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test
This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test End of this test



Winlogo.png Test configurations on Windows:


Environment Configurations Comments Tester
Region OS CPU/GPU Revision Graphics Sound/Pad
NTSC-U ?
  • Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU M 430 @ 2.27GHz
  • NVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M (8.17.12.9551)
0.9.9.r5128 (svn) GSDx r5135 0.1.16
  • SPU2-X r5139 2.0.0
  • Lilypad r5112 0.11.0
BIOS: USA 1.60, FPS:~50-60, The use of dense fog in this game results in an uneven framerate (with frame skip disabled); Running fullscreen D3D10 mode, 2x native scaling with custom window ...
size 1168x1022 on a 1080p TV. Dynamic vsync off. Interpolation #4, de-alias filter, Xaudio 2, latency 90ms, Timestretch w/ default settings. Disc is an ISO on HDD. Playing with Dualshock 3 using libUSB/sixaxis64. FMVs won't play normally with scaled resolution and HW rendering. In other words, hit F9 when movies start :). Sound is a little wobbly in FMVs in software mode, but not unlistenable.
Quaestor

What do you think? Is it an interesting/useful feature (considering that these walls of text look really bad on small monitors (I can see it by reducing the width of my FF window)). --Ngng (talk) 16:17, 2 November 2014 (UTC)



Hey that's pretty awesome. It would definitely make the pages more clean looking.

Ryudo (talk) 16:56, 2 November 2014 (UTC)


Well I guess I'll try that on the real pages than! --Ngng (talk) 18:37, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Some weird behavior I'm going to deal with tomorrow:

• There is a shaking problem in game, but it can be fixed by choosing blend bff interlace mode in gsdx. • You need a pretty fast cpu in order to run the game nicely without speedhack since speedhacks don't improve much for the game.


Hmm, it might be better if you simply make the collapse/expand thing appear when it's longer than 3 lines maybe. And then without the whole "...".

So you'd get

AAAA BBBB CCCC DDDD EEEE FFFF GGGG HHHH IIII JJJJ KKKK LLLL MMMM NNNN
[Expand] / [Collapse]
OOOO PPPP QQQQ RRRR SSSS TTTT UUUU VVVV WWWW XXXX YYYY ZZZZ

Because right now it would basically cut it off at GG.. and then start ..GG on the next line in the expand window. This looks weird to me. You think it's possible to do it with the way I described? (Not sure if you're still working on this, disregard this message if you are).

Ryudo (talk) 09:24, 4 November 2014 (UTC)