User talk:Ngng: Difference between revisions

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--[[User:SHunter|SHunter]] 11:26, 7 January 2015 (GMT-5)
--[[User:SHunter|SHunter]] 11:26, 7 January 2015 (GMT-5)
:Yes the motion interlace is the way. But you should make the strokes bigger so they will still be visible after resize. [ I modified your example a bit to see how it will look resized (bottom left small image is your original, you can see that the strokes look more like a blur now)]. --[[User:Ngng|Ngng]] ([[User talk:Ngng|talk]]) 06:24, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 06:24, 8 January 2015

Previously on the air

Other links

What to do on the wiki

This link has some info on what is planned to be done on the wiki.

New Template

I have put up some updates about the plan for a new template on my user page. Please give it a look. Tonygiang (talk) 05:47, 21 July 2014 (BST)

This is not the first attempt to update the template (as you can also see on my page here). When it was created I was torn between "the last tested configuration" template and "the table of all tested configurations" template. It just happened that "the last tested configuration" template was implemented before and was never changed afterwards. The idea was that there aren't so many users to contribute so the one configuration is enough in most cases (especially for some forgotten and rare games) plus the table template would be way more complex for an ordinary user to work with. And finally I've run into the serious lack of time IRL (the state I'm currently in btw).
It's not that easy to update the current template correctly as you can see here it's rather a complex thing. If you're serious about changing it you should make a working test page beforehand (you can use your own user page for that or even create a new test page). Finally I can find some time and help you turn your test page into the new template (if you want my help). And only when we will have the new beautiful working page we can update every game page in existence (and this would also be a hard work because there are so many pages to update).
By the way do you really think that "the table of all tested configurations" template will improve the data collection on the wiki? It will be more readable no doubt about it but I haven't witnessed that many cases of updating or replacing the outdated info. There were some but not so many. And many of those just updated the version to the latest available. The useful thing about this table template is when there is a regression in development leads to broken games you would be able to see it and choose not to use that "bad" version to play the game. But other than that the older entries in this table are for historical or sentimental reasons, IMO. What's your take on this? --Ngng (talk) 07:38, 21 July 2014 (BST)
I could see that was the problem early on, and unfortunately, the single-test case format just creates a mentality of hesitation for newer testers. I used to be one, wondering whether or not I should overwrite the test result of another user when I didn't reproduce the same issue(s) on a different hardware configuration, different OS and different plugins. You know, it's not just replacing outdated testing results (in which case, 1 test case would be enough indeed), but providing various results on varying testing environments as well. I do think rearranging the template to allow multiple test cases will not only improve data collection, but encourage contribution as well.
I have looked into how the Dolphin guys made the testing table for their wiki, which seems adaptable if there's no quirk in either wiki. You can see here that they actually used a combination of 3 separate templates to build the table:
<!--Use this template for test entries: {{testing/entry|revision=|OS=|CPU=|GPU=|result=|tester=}}-->
The documentation can explain itself well enough. It's actually a very ad-hoc method considering their testing/end template simply contains a markup wrap. Their testing/entry template is the glue (and the most intimidating part) of this format, but I'm sure we can adapt this eventually. Tonygiang (talk) 13:02, 21 July 2014 (BST)
Well, lets try to do it then! We can remove some parts from the old template and use the new one alongside with it. This approach from Dolphin guys seems reasonable and easy enough to use so we can adopt it without copying their actual template (it's not so complex anyway). First of all we need to agree on the table columns. A you can see here there was an attempt to do it about two years ago so we can at least take this into consideration. Try creating your own table (without using any templates for the time being) and I'll convert it to templates when we're agreed on its contents. By the way I'll be out of town for 3 days until the end of the week (starting tomorrow) so I won't be able to answer you for some time. --Ngng (talk) 06:06, 22 July 2014 (BST)
A sample table is up on my user page. Tonygiang (talk) 10:23, 22 July 2014 (BST)
I made my own sample on my user page. I used a different table style so it's more compact and has "wiki" colors. I changed the "Sound" row to "CDVD" because I thought knowing what CDVD plugin someone used would be more helpful. I also changed "Comments" to "Speedhacks", because otherwise every test result would just be repeating each other saying things like "audio is desynched".
IMO any comments about issues with the game or comments about what gamefixes to use shouldn't be stated in the table. That way it is more convenient for people that look for these 2 things in the wiki:
  • Whether a game is playable or not.
  • What settings should I use to fix specific issues.
Other people interested in performance of the game will look at the table to see if they can run the game at full speed.
Also more info about "wiki tables" can be found here and here.
--Shunter (talk) 12:43, 22 July 2014 (GMT-5)
The style looks nicer, although it could use a border-collapse style to save some screen space real estate. The sample comment about the issues of the games are just examples of what the testers would have a say on, not what they are obligated to repeat in every entry. They could have some comment about the performance of particular hardware, how far they could push the game above standard testing condition (which is always native resolution and no graphical enhancement), etc... Like you said, it's a performance reference table, but we can only make it so with some space for the testers to tell us about the performance they got, don't we?
I don't think speedhacks need a separate column since as the devs said, test results are assumed to have no kind of hacks enabled (because technically, they are hack-ey by default and could mangle test results, hence not very useful for the devs to look at). Mentioning of speedhacks is only necessary if they generate different results. My terrible example entry did not reflect those things very well and might have given you an impression that speedhacks need to be explicit for every entry. That one example alone should in no way be the guideline to make test entries.
I have no clue about a CDVD plugin column. Are CDVD plugins really complicated to configure or lacking in compatibility that users would find it helpful to have it explicit? Tonygiang (talk) 10:20, 24 July 2014 (BST)
Some games run worse when you try to run them using the disc, so it might be helpful to know whether the tester used an ISO or ran the game through the DVD drive. Although I now think that instead of a CDVD column, that space could be used for something else.

--Shunter (talk) 7:14, 24 July 2014 (GMT-5)

I'm also in favor of having the comments (or result) column because otherwise there are no means of telling whether the game is working or not using this config (we can even color the table cell or the whole line in some light green/red/blue to reflect the result). Any relevant info (like bios, hacks, fps etc.) can also be stored in it. But what about regions (PAL/NTSC(-J))? The games from the different regions may have considerable difference in performance and behavior. --Ngng (talk) 08:08, 25 July 2014 (BST)

Can't we make separate pages for each regional version of the same game, then? That was how the public compatbility list is organized. Several games even have different names in each regions. If not, then the CPU/GPU info could go into the same column, so that there would be 3 factors in environment: os, hardware and region. Tonygiang (talk) 07:45, 26 July 2014 (BST)
Having a number of pages for one game is really not a wise thing to do. We won't even be able to name the pages right (this is ugly: "Fatal Frame NTSC-U", "Fatal Frame PAL", "Fatal Frame NTSC-J") and this will spawn so many duplicates. Besides we'd have to copy most of the issues to all the pages and maintain these pages simultaneously. I can think of a number of additional problems we would face if we'll adopt this approach... --Ngng (talk) 06:32, 27 July 2014 (BST)
I updated my sample table. To match what you guys wanted.

--Shunter (talk) 2:03, 26 July 2014 (GMT-5)

Okay now your tables look very much alike (except for minor differences). I'll dust off my wiki markup knowledge then and make the sample template. --Ngng (talk) 06:32, 27 July 2014 (BST)

I've made three templates: Template:TestingHeader, Template:TestingFooter and Template:TestingEntry (the later has some info about its usage). If you have any ideas just go ahead and edit the templates (we can always revert to any version). --Ngng (talk) 09:18, 27 July 2014 (BST)

I'm really clueless when it comes to wiki templates, but is it possible to have 2 parameters in the same cell? So that the CPU/GPU column can automatically sort them into list? Tonygiang (talk) 13:52, 28 July 2014 (BST)
I think this is the way it's done right now (if I understand you correctly). What really concerns me is how this will look on the games' pages because without any other info and only two tables on the page (game card table on the right pane and this testing table in the middle) it may really look ugly :-\.
What do you think, should we proceed now or should we wait for any other opinions on the testing table (because it will be harder to change it later)? --Ngng (talk) 06:28, 29 July 2014 (BST)
This is what a game page looks like now:
This is what a game page can look like with a table:
I used an image editor to make the second image but if you can make the new template look like that, it won't look as ugly. Maybe we should make a post on the PCSX2 forums to get more opinions?

--Shunter (talk) 1:43, 29 July 2014 (GMT-5)

Impressive work, thank you! But I was more concerned about really empty pages save for the test info (without issues and reviews and anything at all). Btw, do you think we should separate test tables on the OS basis?
I'll make the post on the forums and then proceed to apply changes to the old template in a couple of days. --Ngng (talk) 10:41, 30 July 2014 (BST)

New Template (cont.)

What you guys have got so far looks good to me. The only thing I would mention is the lack of a section for input plugins, as I know at least a handful of games require a special configuration of lilypad or a different plugin altogether. I suppose that could go in the comments column though. Good work! --Blyss Sarania

@Ngng I think we should make a separate table for different OSs; I made a separate table for both OSs because it ended up looking better.

--Shunter (talk) 12:27, 30 July 2014 (GMT-5)

Finally managed to get back. Anyway, I don't see why we would need separate table for each OS. Didn't we have a dedicated column for OS already? --Tonygiang (talk) 10:03, 31 July 2014 (BST)
The only thing I would suggest would be a way for someone to add their own comments for unreproducible issues and the like instead of editing the main article, I'm not saying it is needed, but it would be nice. Clank (talk) 02:59, 31 July 2014 (BST)

Sorry, guys, it's been a horribly busy and generally horrible week for me...
On the topic of separate tables: I'd say lets try and separate them (we can always go back to one table it's not that hard). This way it will look a bit better IMO with the OS icons and big headers and the dedicated column will still be used to show OS version.
@Clank: If I understand you correctly you want a special place (column or such) for encountered issues in the test table... I think we have no place left. You can always use comments for anything issue related or you may add them to the main article (to be honest there is a way -- we can use an extra line with merged columns solely for the purpose of registering issues, but it may look pretty bad, idk)
@Blyss Sarania: I think comments will do for the time being, although the time will tell.
I'm gonna make a long time overdue "issue template" today. Should we wait a bit more or should I proceed with the test table? --Ngng (talk) 10:13, 2 August 2014 (BST)

I really like the idea of the new issue template, but I have a question. Is the issue "Fixed" if there's a workaround for it, or can we only mark as "Fixed" if the PCSX2 team makes a fix for the game?
I think we should proceed with the test table, since no one is objecting.

--Shunter (talk) 7:27, 2 August 2014 (GMT-5)

IMO I it should be marked as fixed when it's no longer manifesting itself under the given conditions (for example the minor GFX glitch is gone in GDSX HW because devs fixed it). Otherwise most of the issues will be marked as fixed because they have workarounds. And with all that said I'll proceed with the test table (although I'll better do it tomorrow in the morning when there's a certain itch to do things ;-) ). --Ngng (talk) 14:11, 2 August 2014 (BST)

Update: I've altered issue type so we can add "notes". When the game does not run smoothly without some option activated it's still worth noting somewhere but it's not an issue (if the option is not a hack of course). It least this system is more flexible now.
I can't start working on test tables until I'm finished with updating issues on all game pages. I only hope there aren't so many left... --Ngng (talk) 09:58, 3 August 2014 (BST)

There was a way to apply a category to the whole game list, wasn't there? You could do that right now and roll out the new stub template so that we can gradually convert the pages later. It gives something to generate new stubs from the forum's compatibility list, too.
I'm not keen on the whole separate table for each OS thing. Pcsx2 might be ported to other platforms other than Windows and Linux in the future, then we'd have to make another tweak to the stub template for each new platform. One-size-fits-all table is future-proof, but if i'm out-voted in the matter, got to roll along, I guess. --Tonygiang (talk) 08:59, 5 August 2014 (BST)
I'm almost done with the issues, just a couple of pages of indexed games left. I just don't want to mix these two problems. I understand your concern about table separation. It will be really easy to go back to one table if it will turn out not be as good I promise. --Ngng (talk) 09:41, 5 August 2014 (BST)

New Template (cont.2)

So it's been done. See this page for reference. I don't know what to think about it atm because I need a fresh look (tomorrow), but the first impression is so-so... Maybe it will change tomorrow idk. Please comment and try to convert other pages to see the difference. To convert the page you have to:

  • remove the word game in the line {{infobox game
  • remove the lines starting with <!-- Windows specs --> until the end of template. The last removed line must start with pccomment=
  • add testing tables in a form (using the removed values):

I'm done for today, see you tomorrow... --Ngng (talk) 20:38, 6 August 2014 (BST)

I just updated this page to the new template. IMO it looks alright but the template could use some tweaks. For example, the text in the boxes should be centered. Also the table needs more room width-wise. Is it possible to decrease the width of the "infobox" to increase the width of the tables?
--Shunter (talk) 5:42, 6 August 2014 (GMT-5)
I have a really simple resolution for that: put the testing table at the bottom, below the Known Issues section. That way, it doesn't share page width with the infobox. I've edited the Drakan page as an example. Seems ok for now. --Tonygiang (talk) 06:42, 8 August 2014 (BST)

Sorry guys, I've been swamped again (as always)...
@SHunter: At my 1920x1080 resolution the problem with space deficit is non-existent. :) The table scales automatically right now, but some columns (in fact all but the last one) have fixed width so it may look pretty ugly for some resolutions. I'll try to tune it somehow so to beautify it for smaller monitors... Try to play with column align yourself (IMO this one is alright, but why not try to center to see the difference?). Fiddle with the right panel also. It's mostly defined in the same template.
@Tonygiang: Putting the table after all the info will only work in case we have this info. See for example this page. The table looks fine if it's not swarmed with info like it was with Drakan in my case. --Ngng (talk) 19:03, 8 August 2014 (BST)

I'd say I like it now... Maybe I like it even better than the plain info. I hope it's not too late for that anyway (PCSX2 development is kind of slow for the last 3-4 years, will there be enough "versions" to make use of our new test table)...
To the matter at hand: we can "easily" convert all the empty pages ("easily" being overstatement here) but I believe the amount of work to convert the filled pages is monstrous. To convert the page we have to open its history first and get the tester name. In case there was a previous test info we should go back in time to find it and add this old info to the table as well. Some pages will require a lot of time to transfer and it cannot be done automatically. :(
Old template pages category will show all the pages with the old template (right now it's empty but it should update itself (I hope) if some kind of scheduler runs on PCSX2 server. If it will stay empty it's not a big deal. As a last resort I can ask Bositman to run some wiki related scripts, idk).
I can try to speed up the whole thing by making use of these buttons

I think I'll try it tomorrow, at least we can do it in semi-automatic fashion. --Ngng (talk) 19:51, 8 August 2014 (BST) this URL will do the same with Sega Superstars Tennis as the button above. I'll exploit PUT method by creating batch file to open edit and history pages for multiple games at once. This method will allow us to speed up edits without wasting time on searching pages... --Ngng (talk) 20:09, 8 August 2014 (BST)

New Template (cont.3)

I've decided to create more universal solution and to write an external utility to convert the old template into the new one (to an extent of course) using clipboard. Basically you have to start the program leave it running while working on pages conversion. Press Alt-Shift-E on a chosen page (it's a shortcut for editing), use Ctrl-A to select all text and Ctrl-C to put it into clipboard. After that you just have to press Shift-Shift (left shift and right shift concurrently) and the program will convert (or try to convert) the text automatically. Get the text from clipboard again (Ctrl-V) and check the result, correct it, add needed info and the tester name (from page history). I've spent the whole day doing some automation stuff for the wiki (and I'm not done yet) and this utility, although may feel like magic to me, could still use some improvement and may also contain a number of bugs. Please test it and leave some feedback. Thanks.
I cannot upload binary files on the wiki pages so I'll do it in this thread. --Ngng (talk) 19:52, 9 August 2014 (BST)

I'm preparing to convert most of the empty pages (and only empty pages) automatically but they would look really empty without any info. What do you think is better to leave them bare like this or put a placeholder table like this? --Ngng (talk) 11:21, 10 August 2014 (BST)

Leave a table, it gives potential testers an idea what goes where. --Tonygiang (talk) 10:11, 11 August 2014 (BST)

Correcting and completing the machine conversions (COMPLETED, no longer needed)

This is a small note on how to correct the auto-converted pages into their finished state (in case you have some time and want to help):

  1. First of all you need to choose a page to correct from this category.
  2. Start editing the page and open the page history simultaneously.
  3. Search through the history (using prev links) and find the author of the last configuration change.
  4. Copy authors name into Tester field
  5. Fill OS field if possible (some comments may contain it)
  6. Fill Status field (0,1 or 2)
  7. Fill Region field if possible (some comments may contain it)
  8. If the older records in history contain previous test information (which was exchanged for the current by the mentioned author), you should add another test case and fill it as well.
  9. If all goes well, remove [[Category:Temp - unverified automatically converted pages]] line from the article and save it
  10. Minus one unfinished article, thank you!

This is a slow process so it will take some time until all these articles are corrected. --Ngng (talk) 10:37, 14 August 2014 (BST)

Congrats on converting every page to the new template. I just wish I could've helped out more but I didn't have the time. -Shunter 12:02, 20 October 2014 (GMT-5)

You still helped a lot with the conversion (and with the template itself) so thank you! And I'm also grateful for putting in a word for me to Bositman! I guess I'd make that blog post about wiki in general and maybe to call out for someone who could re-design the main page and improve the overall look of game articles a little. We'll see what he thinks about it. --Ngng (talk) 07:03, 21 October 2014 (BST)

What is Pokopom? Not sure if it should be added to the wiki but it's an "open source XInput input plugin for PSX emulators, PCSX2, nullDC 1.0.4, Chankast 0.25 and many N64 emulators."

A great alternative to other input plugins, I never used it much though.

And now you know :D

Thanks for the info. :) Now I know... --Ngng (talk) 07:33, 24 August 2014 (BST)


Just a test for navbox from Wikipedia...

If anyone has any ideas about this template, please drop a message here. The bottom part of the template is possibly broken right now (Wikipedia uses LUA-driven templates now and we do not have LUA (and honestly we don't need it) so the thing I've stolen from them was not up-to-date). I'll correct it later.

Some partially hidden text experiments

Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test
This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test Just a test This is a test Still a simple test End of this test

Winlogo.png Test configurations on Windows:

Environment Configurations Comments Tester
Region OS CPU/GPU Revision Graphics Sound/Pad
  • Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU M 430 @ 2.27GHz
  • NVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M (
0.9.9.r5128 (svn) GSDx r5135 0.1.16
  • SPU2-X r5139 2.0.0
  • Lilypad r5112 0.11.0
BIOS: USA 1.60, FPS:~50-60, The use of dense fog in this game results in an uneven framerate (with frame skip disabled); Running fullscreen D3D10 mode, 2x native scaling with custom window ...
size 1168x1022 on a 1080p TV. Dynamic vsync off. Interpolation #4, de-alias filter, Xaudio 2, latency 90ms, Timestretch w/ default settings. Disc is an ISO on HDD. Playing with Dualshock 3 using libUSB/sixaxis64. FMVs won't play normally with scaled resolution and HW rendering. In other words, hit F9 when movies start :). Sound is a little wobbly in FMVs in software mode, but not unlistenable.

What do you think? Is it an interesting/useful feature (considering that these walls of text look really bad on small monitors (I can see it by reducing the width of my FF window)). --Ngng (talk) 16:17, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Hey that's pretty awesome. It would definitely make the pages more clean looking.

Ryudo (talk) 16:56, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Well I guess I'll try that on the real pages than! --Ngng (talk) 18:37, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
Some weird behavior I'm going to deal with tomorrow:

• There is a shaking problem in game, but it can be fixed by choosing blend bff interlace mode in gsdx. • You need a pretty fast cpu in order to run the game nicely without speedhack since speedhacks don't improve much for the game.

Hmm, it might be better if you simply make the collapse/expand thing appear when it's longer than 3 lines maybe and then start the rest on a new line. And then without the whole "..." as well.

So you'd get

[Expand] / [Collapse]

Because right now it would basically cut it off at GG.. and then start ..GG on the next line in the expand window. This looks weird to me. You think it's possible to do it with the way I described? (Not sure if you're still working on this, disregard this message if you are).

Ryudo (talk) 09:24, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

My problem is I have only very basic knowledge on CSS/Java script and Wikipedia does not have any tool, script or template that can do proper collapse/expand. If you'd ever come across some wiki with good collapse/expand examples we could use it here. Then again, in time I think I'll get to the level required to write the script myself. But right now it looks pretty ugly... --Ngng (talk) 09:47, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I see what you mean. I'm looking into it as well atm. See here on my user page for some experiments. Didn't wanna clutter up your page so I did it on mine instead. :P
Ryudo (talk) 11:52, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
Unfortunately, built-in Wikimedia class mw-collapsible is far from ideal (and it doesn't work with bullets and numbers). The end user will only provide the text, he will not specify the point where this text should collapse. The script then should determine this point and I can't find the solution to this using the tools I know (whether it's the solid text block or the text contains many lines). Heck, I can't even remove 0xA 0xD symbols from the line to make it a solid block! I can't even find the position of those line-breaks in the text!
There is another solution, though. If the text is big enough we can just hide it altogether like this:
Comments (expand to see):

BIOS: USA v02.30.

Runs great, even at 2560x1440 resolution. (Constant 60 FPS) I've had no issues playing this game. The only problematic area was only due to a controller issue, which is the Barr Mountains area where you had to play the Dragon Flute. This was already a horrendous area even on the actual PS2. But using the workaround I was able to pass this area just fine.
But I do not know if it will be any better than cutting the sentence in half in some random place. --Ngng (talk) 12:15, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Some partially hidden text experiments (part 2)

BIOS: USA v02.30. Runs great, even at 2560x1440 resolution. (Constant 60 FPS) I've had no issues playing this game. The only problematic area was only due to a controller issue, which is the Barr Mountains area where you had to play the Dragon Flute. This was already a horrendous area even on the actual PS2. But using the workaround I was able to pass this area just fine.

It seems javascript is not that hard to crack after all. At least this task wasn't impossible to do without prior javascript knowledge... --Ngng (talk) 16:07, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Navboxes on the march

In order to improve cross-linking between game pages we need to create a number (more than 250) navboxes. Creating and filling a navbox is a time-consuming task so it will take a while to finish them all. Anyone wants to help a little here's a category. All of these entries are games from game series that could use a navbox. If you don't know how to handle a navbox, please don't bother, because it will also take a while to explain it in full. :) Otherwise thanks in advance for any help. --Ngng (talk) 16:20, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Basically, you need to copy the new template from wikipedia, remove any groups that aren't games related (video, characters, etc...), add the last group "related" (and fill it with all the PS2 developers of the game series) and change non-PS2 links back to wikipedia (so * ''[[Dragon Ball: Advanced Adventure|Advanced Adventure]]'' will become * ''[ Advanced Adventure]'' (GBA)). Add the link to your new template on all affected game pages and you're done. --Ngng (talk) 10:22, 15 November 2014 (UTC)


Hey I posted this on the Forums as well, but I'm not sure if you're as active there as you are on here :P Sandbox for Screenshots If you look at the bottom of that page, you'll notice I added a gallery/screenshots section. Do you think it'd be a good idea to add this to pages we have screens for? Ryudo (talk) 17:42, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea for pages that have excessive amount of screenshots. And currently I know only one game page that fits this description... :)
But we already have a number of games with screenshots. --Ngng (talk) 18:18, 21 November 2014 (UTC)


Heya, do you think it's possible to add 'Publishers' to the infobox table of the game pages? The reason for this is that there are a lot of games that have an unknown developer but a wellknown publisher instead. An example of this is Naruto: Ultimate Ninja for example. In this case CyberConnect2 developed it in Japan, but it's most known to be released by Namco in USA/Europe, which makes a lot more sense for the average Joe accessing the Wiki here. If I look up an NTSC or PAL game, I always look for the publisher instead of the developer, because that's a lot easier to find than the developer.

We can probably just put Publishers right below the Developer area. So it would look like this:

Developer: [[Name]]
Publisher: [[Name]]

Ryudo (talk) 09:38, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

The original idea behind having only developers was that publishers do not "develop" games so they aren't that useful while searching. In other words you'll either search for a developer if you already played another game from them (ex. Team Silent / Team Ico) or for the games within the same franchise (ex. Final Fantasy). Besides I thought you can always add a notable publisher in the developer field, no probs.
Having said that, I think we can add the publisher, but as of now none of the game articles contain them; and it would require quite an effort to fill them all. It's pretty easy for me to add this field, but will it be worth it? What do you think? --Ngng (talk) 17:36, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Hmm in my opinion I think it will be worth it, especially with games where the publisher is better known than the actual developer of a game. And sure it's a little bit of effort to add publishers, but we can just gradually work on updating those things. Eventually I'll be updating my own test entries anyways, and then I can already adjust those pages, the rest will come in time. -- Ryudo (talk) 22:15, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I added publisher field but it will not spawn additional categories like "Games by XXXX" atm. And I do not know whether it should. --06:57, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks! -- Ryudo (talk) 09:06, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Info transfer Forum -> Wiki

Sorry guys but when my robot commits changes (80 pages per run) the wiki may become slow... unbearably slow!.. There's nothing I can do about it :( (although I could do it in different time I guess). Please bear with me these 2-5 days of commits before I'll finish this stage. Thanks! --Ngng (talk) 18:15, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Public compatibility forum links

Hey ng, can you take a look at these please and tell us what you think in the topic?


They're potential new logos maybe if you like them. There's a bunch of them posted so tell me if you like 'em and which one you like most if you do. -- Ryudo (talk) 23:04, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

They are pretty good! Let's try the last one. We'll see how it will look... --Ngng (talk) 06:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Is there a place we can preview how it looks on the Wiki with the logo updated? Right now the old logo still displays -- Ryudo (talk) 19:40, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
I've changed the logo, I guess it will take some time until the cache is purged (at least it is my hope). Then again I've only changed it once on the very old version of MediaWiki, maybe it should be changed differently now, idk. Let's wait until tomorrow, if the old logo stays I'll try to do something else. --Ngng (talk) 19:48, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
If you're wondering, I'm waiting for the answer from Bositman. It's possible that some settings on the server side link the real logo image with some other file I have no access to. --Ngng (talk) 15:22, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Yeah it most likely needs to be overwritten on the server itself. aka via FTP. Notice how that element is background-image: url("/skins/common/images/mywiki.png"); So the file mywiki.png needs to be overwritten via FTP upload. -- Ryudo (talk) 21:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Yep, I know it has a different name. It's supposed to be updated from Wiki.png in some work queue or such (I've never fiddled with media wiki on the server side, -- never had a need to do it, I've only set up Joomla). Let's just wait for Bositman. --Ngng (talk) 06:07, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Bositman told me that they want to create consistency thought all PCSX2 sites, meaning they will use new logo everywhere including the wiki. I think that is appropriate. Too many symbols and logos do not make a sound impression. Tough luck for your logo. Sorry. --Ngng (talk) 16:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Well that sucks :/ Which sites is he talking about though? He means the main site I guess? -- Ryudo (talk) 18:02, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

The main site the forums and the wiki in my understanding. But I think it doesn't suck. IMO it's high time they change forums logo. It's old and ugly just like the main page here on the wiki. :-\ And any changes to the logo in one place should be reflected everywhere. Just cheer up, it's only a logo after all. --Ngng (talk) 18:16, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Al least they should let us try to take the background out of the logo here, in all honesty, that skyblue square doesn't look too good. I'm gonna be a bit short of time on the following days, but I'm gonna try to vector the "PSCX2" and replicate the gradients when I have time. DoctorMuerte (talk) 19:06, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Well the thing is they will change this square into something else, it's not that they try to stick with this old dusty blue logo forever. You can PM Bositman yourself and ask him about it. It's easy!
On the side note I'm gonna have a vacation near the end of next week (and I feel happy about it!), but I will be unable to watch over this place for two weeks. I hope I'll copy all the forum test cases before this time because I really hate to leave something unfinished. --Ngng (talk) 19:45, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I'll ask him, perhaps we should wait until they do it.DoctorMuerte (talk) 21:31, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
What I don't get is that he doesn't want to change it because he wants it to be the same everywhere... when the truth is that it's not even the case now either. The Forums, Site, and Wiki all use different logos. The only ones that look similar are the forum and main site, the wiki is completely different. I get the idea behind wanting it to be the same everywhere, but it's not even being applied right now. (Not to mention that the PCSX2 app has a different logo from the site and forum too). Is there some plan for a massive update to the logos coming up soon? If there's no plans for such update then I see no reason NOT to change the wiki logo at least, because it's already different from every site as it is.

Ah well, doesn't matter anymore. If he chooses to use it still later on he's free to do so. Ryudo (talk) 23:29, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Ah, come on, don't be so sore about it. It's only a picture. I think he plans to update all logos everywhere. Here's his original message: "The problem is we can't have 6 different logos all around, we need to have some brand image that people recognize. I am already using a new logo for the website update that will happen soon, but we need to all decide which will be used officially..." --Ngng (talk) 05:54, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Indeed we don't have the same logo everywhere now either and that is something I am looking to fix with the site update as an excuse. We have logos on the program, the website, the wiki, the forum, the youtube channel, twitter account and google+ and there is inconsistency all over the place. I do appreciate all the work you guys have done around here and hate for it to go to waste, but having a distinct brand image will help PCSX2 get more well known IMO. I need to have a talk with any active team members still around to decide what logo we will be using cross-site, then you guys can customize it for the wiki so at least it looks uniform. Bositman (talk) 15:26, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Images transfer is finished

Yay! I finished images transfer. Took me longer than I anticipated with all the small errors I'm prone to (like broken or skipped images) but it's finally done. Test cases will wait until I'll be beack from vacation, but it was important for me to finish at least what I've started. --Ngng (talk) 10:51, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Nice job, enjoy your holidays. DoctorMuerte (talk) 00:50, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Always the best, happy holidays! CloudUchiha (talk) 15:39, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Welcome back mate, nice to see you again. DoctorMuerte (talk) 23:28, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! It feels that 2 weeks ain't a long time when it comes to holidays. :) --Ngng (talk) 05:29, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I know, 2 weeks is a short period when you're in holydays. Whenever you have time, please take a look at this list. DoctorMuerte (talk) 23:52, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
You mean Hotkeys and Commandline support? They look nice (I for one didn't know it was possible to launch PS2 games from Steam client). I'll definitely read them to check grammar when I'll finish with test3. When it comes to the Linux guide I can only read it through because I'm not a Linux guy I know very little about it. I could not event help you with screen shots for this guide (you still have Windows screen shots in it). It will take someone who actually live in Linux to help with this guide.
I think we need a navbox for all special and guide-related pages. I'll make it a bit later.
New main page proposal is a controversial topic. Some of your elements do look refreshing but all in all it's still the same page (I got really tired of seeing those four controllers for all those years). Take a look at Dolphin's wiki page. It's not ideal I know but it's simpler and easier on the eye. Besides, who would constantly update Latest news & blog entries when you (and me) will eventually cease to be active here? So this topic will require some additional thoughts. --Ngng (talk) 06:23, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm glad you like the new guides. I'm gonna update the pictures on the linux guide (I have a linux distro installed aswell).
About the new main page, I agree we need more ideas on how to do it. DoctorMuerte (talk) 10:39, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Test cases transfer

In the following days I'm going to attempt to transfer all useful test cases from the forum. After that I'll be free to do anything else (meaning I'll continue with checking the Windows guide). --Ngng (talk) 15:47, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Forum user test:

Replace/automation work that may be considered for future endeavors

  • Set page playability statuses according to new test cases (Category:Temp new test case, Category:Temp new test case too long)
  • Sort test entries (new test entries were inserted at the top of test tables). Such a work can possibly only be done by hands and it is pretty time consuming.
  • Use Game faqs to create still missing titles, update developers/publishers, serials, release dates, AKAs, genres, multiplayer status. I'd even get boxarts from them but I'd need their permission for that. So no luck here I guess.
  • Automatically set Wikipedia links (where possible) -- not that hard
  • Automatically update game descriptions from Wikipedia (where possible) -- pretty hard considering Wikipedia articles are not uniform.
  • Automatically update Developers/Publishers from Wikipedia (where possible) -- not that hard; but it will surface many non-PS2 developers so this is questionable.
  • Automatically update release dates from Wikipedia (where possible) -- seems like a doable project.
  • Automatically update genres from Wikipedia (where possible) -- also looks doable.
  • Automatically update box arts from Wikipedia (where possible and needed) -- many of Wikipedia images aren't PS2 box arts, although it does not matter THAT much it's still a bad thing, additionally this project would require a certain amount of work, so it's kinda hard and questionable.
  • Automatically link game review fields (where needed) to Metacritic or some other similar site -- difficulty is not obvious atm.
  • Finish with all needed navboxes. This can only be done by hands (although I could imagine myself doing some sort of automation here but it would kill all the fun I suppose).

More Tags

I think adding more tags will make the wiki even more useful and organized.

Tags I would really like to see for game articles:

  • Supports native progressive scan
  • Supports 16:9 aspect ratio
  • Games that have widescreen patches
  • Games that don't widescreens (Any game article that don't have either of the 2 tags above will receive this tag)

The following links will help determine which game articles will receive those tags:

Also I think stubs need to be separated from game articles that have no test cases (if they aren't already).

Funny, just recently I thought about marking those games that play well in hardware mode vs games that are only good in SW. Add to that games that upscale good vs games that will only look okay in native res and I guess we're up to something. I'm thinking about small icons in infobox like compatibility field in Dolphin wiki for ex. (imagine those yellow stars are icons for wide-screen/HW/etc...) (and categories as well). What do you think? --Ngng (talk) 09:24, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

I was actually gonna ask if you could add icons similar to the Dolphin wiki; then I decided not to ask because I didn't want to ask too much. Maybe we can use icons similar to the icons shown in the back of PS2/PS3 game boxes. For example:

I could help make custom icons for different tags and we could ask the forums for additional help. --SHunter 09:56, 1 January 2015 (GMT-5)

Yep, exactly like PS3 icons!.. But I'm a bit swamped with PCSX2-related work now... :-\ I need to refine my test cases transfer (some tasks still remain, no-one else will do them for me), I'm in a process of updating forum compatibility threads (like this) to link them back to the wiki and most notably I need to continue working (correcting) on User:DoctorMuerte/test3, otherwise our Doctor may get slightly offended by my delays... :)
In the meantime you could prepare icons and update infobox template to reflect the changes (with icons ready I could even update it myself it shouldn't take that long). --Ngng (talk) 16:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

I made my first rough draft: What do you think of it so far? --SHunter 11:15, 1 January 2015 (GMT-5)

I was thinking more about small images without text so they could fit anywhere in infobox. Like your screen picture with 16:9 but without "Widescreen support". We can try the icons with words of course but I predict we'll have a hard time trying to fit them anywhere. Although it's your turn to try, why not try with and without words. --Ngng (talk) 18:11, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi guys. Don't worry about the guide Ngng, you're making a lot of work, it will be ready when its ready.
If you guys are gonna work with the infoboxes, I wanted to suggest two things:
  1. Maybe the icons can be placed instead of the game's title. I always though that the name on the infobox was somehow "redundandt" with the page title.
  2. Could we try to set the Playable status with the same green as the region on the test cases?
Something like this
DoctorMuerte (talk) 17:45, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
1. The title is not that useful I agree and it's more of a design choice than a feature. You can try placing some icons in there (temporary on the wiki or virtually in Photoshop) to see how it will look (I'm more inclined towards the space behind the picture though, but it does not matter much until we can see the result).
2. Okay, try it (it's not hidden that deep in templates). I chose the different color because infobox' green was too bright and distracting. Update test template or infobox to see what's the best option we'll also check it out. --Ngng (talk) 18:11, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
You're ninja'd me with icons while I was typing :). That it the place (behind the picture) I was aiming for... --Ngng (talk) 18:11, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
I play too much Shinobido and Red ninja :P. I'm gonna try to do something overnight, do you want me to copy/paste the template to another DoctorMuerte/test4 or do you want me to try to change the template itself? (I can always undo if nesesary). DoctorMuerte (talk) 18:29, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Do it on the real templates of course. Why wasting time copying things around... --Ngng (talk) 19:00, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

How do these icons look?

Icon key from left to right: Progressive scan, Native widescreen support, Widescreen patch available, and Game does not support widescreens.

I wanna change the progressive scan icon but I'm not sure what to replace it with. Do you guys have ideas for what the other icons should look like?

And what sizes should the icons be? Currently I'm making all these icons as vectors images meaning I can scale the icons however I want without any loss of quality. --SHunter 1:17, 1 January 2015 (GMT-5)

I like the design. A couple of ideas I can think of (I'm not at home so I can't use the pc to make images as example):
  1. You can try to make the blue part of the gradient match any of the blue colors used on the infobox, if not done yet (using the hex code).
  2. Another posibility is having 2 versions of the icons, to differentiate, if the option is available or not. Then we would need 3 icons (with their special version): progressive (available/unavailable), native 16:9 (available/unavailable) and widescreen patch (available/unavailable):
  • Normal version as it is now
  • Grayscale, or darker, or brighter version, to show that the given option is not available
  1. Progressive scan can have arrow tips pointing to the right, and a small p on the botton right corner
  2. 16:9, "widescreen patch", and "no wideecreen patch" can have a line with arrow tips pointing to both sides.
  3. "No widescreen patch" (if used) icon should include the same "tool icon" (dont know its name), so the viewer can easily tell it refers to the fact that widescreen patches aren't available. DoctorMuerte (talk) 22:08, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

The blue used on the infobox is too close to white to be used in the gradient. But if you want the colors to consistent, maybe we can use this color (#14b7fb) in the infobox template.

Personally I don't feel that there should be another icon showing that progressive scan is not available since only a handful of games support progressive scan. Also the last icon isn't meant to show there isn't a widescreen patch, it's meant to show that there is no support for widescreen either natively or via patch. So putting the wrench on it would be "misleading".

Maybe adding a p to the first icon will make it look better.

What other icons would you guys like to see be made? --SHunter 6:30, 1 January 2015 (GMT-5)

Your icons look very good, although in my opinion progressive scan icon is not that useful (only as a flag for the user to switch deinterlacing on I guess). Basically we have two variables here: WideScreen (unknown, no, yes, patched) and Progressive (unknown, no, yes). I vote for adding some kind of "looking-good-when-upscaled" icon and works in HW mode icon. Concerning the sizes you can still upload svg (it should be supported) so the size won't be a problem anymore, otherwise go with somewhat smaller sizes (I'd say at least 3 times smaller) so they won't end up looking bad after downsizing. --Ngng (talk) 09:19, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Ah, yes... About light-green color for the infobox -- Beatmania IIDX 11: RED. This looks pretty pale. Maybe I'm too used to the old color, I dont really know. Your take? --Ngng (talk) 09:19, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, the lighter color looks unfamiliar. The thing about the #00FF00 color is that it looks too saturated to me, at least compared to the blue tone of the region names. But probably its just my impression so I'd like to hear other user's opinions on this topic. I'm not sure how to make it look better anyway (smoother might be the word). Maybe with another tone (but I think we have too much colors already), perhaps painting only the word Playable, or only painting the status text background (leaving Windows status grey). I have to try different options and make templates of it for easier comparation.
On my user page, I've taken note of the different colors used on the Wiki. I've noticed we have 3 and 4 shades for different colors. Maybe we should consider making a palette of colors that look consistent to be used on all the templates, (probably including the blue tone used on the future widescreen icons, as pointed by SHunter).
DoctorMuerte (talk) 21:53, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't think we should restrict ourselves to a certain color palette or a defined number of "main" colors. Why stop using as many colors as we like if it will look good? Anyway you can try to "unify" all the colors used on the wiki if you like as long as it won't look ugly :)... As for the new infobox color my opinion will stay. I liked prev. version better. It had more distinction. Try lighter shade of 00FF00 maybe as a compromise? --Ngng (talk) 09:13, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

More Tags (cont.)

I can't seem to upload .svg files. It says it's not permitted. Maybe someone has to enable it for the wiki? In the mean time, I'll just upload the png. --SHunter 10:06, 3 January 2015 (GMT-5)

PNGs are fine then. I'd need to bother Bositman to add svg support, but it's not that important so I'd rather not do it. Nice pictures so far! When you upload the rest I'll modify the infobox and add new categories. --Ngng (talk) 10:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
About the color, I resetted it to #00FF00 but if I find one that I think looks better I'll propose it. I have the impression the colors could be more consistent with some testing. DoctorMuerte (talk) 00:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Well you can go ahead and change instead of proposing; we will comment on that. Saves time really (hint: if you're modifying regionbox, edit and save infobox also (even without changes), otherwise the real pages will not update). --Ngng (talk) 10:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

I polished the icons up a bit. What do you guys think of the new "Widescreen Patched" icon? --SHunter 3:55, 4 January 2015 (GMT-5)

I like both of them, maybe the detail con the screen (skyblue on its bottom right corner) won't show up properly if we use a small scale of the file, but we have to test it first of course. DoctorMuerte (talk) 05:58, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
On a side note, when we determine the proper size of the files, they will look better, bacause you can export them on their right size. DoctorMuerte (talk) 05:59, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Patched now looks exactly like it should (I mean much better) :) --Ngng (talk) 15:27, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I made some icons for Interlaced and Progressive: Although the icons are more of a concept than a rough draft.

Do you guys think I'm going the right direction with these icons or should I design them a different way?

Next I want to make icons for games that look good in HW mode/games that only look good in SW mode. But I have no idea how to design those icons. Any ideas? --SHunter 4:37, 6 January 2015 (GMT-5)

Regarding I/P, you could try to simplify a little (i.e. remove the sun (or don't), and try make the interlace effect more recognizable, like in a movement example here), although I think that design will also be alright, we're not some kind of million users site to try to perfect everything after all.
Upscaled/not upscaled is quite simple: rough pixelated image vs smooth good looking.
HW/SW is harder. Displaying 3D sign vs 2D sign may be or some kind of CPU icon or text vs GPU icon or text, I can't think of anything else atm. --Ngng (talk) 06:04, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Someone mentioned we should split stubs from games without test entries... I already did something like that. Right here.

I used that on FFX-International I think if I remember right. It creates a different category for the games that still need testing. Link. We can probably update games with that. It would still be a lot of work though.. I think we have higher priorities than that for this Wiki for now. -- Ryudo (talk) 14:09, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Yep, I saw your template (I removed it because the article now has a test case). The thing is: the only man who could put this template in the correct articles is me (otherwise we're looking at a good amount of work by hands), but between other wiki-related tasks and my real-life work (and that freaking DAI that looks endless :-\) I just don't have a time for it right now. Besides I'd like to complete the wiki with all possible PS2 games before doing something like this. So, I guess it will have to wait a bit... --Ngng (talk) 16:24, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Another icon for progressive/interlaced:

It's a bit simplistic however instead of using the ball, I could use that moving interlaced effect on another object.

--SHunter 11:26, 7 January 2015 (GMT-5)

Yes the motion interlace is the way. But you should make the strokes bigger so they will still be visible after resize. I modified your example a bit to see how it will look resized (bottom left small image is your original, you can see that the strokes look more like a blur now). --Ngng (talk) 06:24, 8 January 2015 (UTC)