Bureaucrats, ninja, Administrators
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User talk:Ngng: Difference between revisions
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[[User:DKTronics|DKTronics]] 19:26, September 22, 2009 (UTC) | [[User:DKTronics|DKTronics]] 19:26, September 22, 2009 (UTC) | ||
: Come on, I'm still to change a thing and you're already thinking about leaving. A bit too hostile. Please believe me, I'll resolve this matter in a most smooth manner possible! :) --[[User:Ngng|Ngng]] 19:52, September 22, 2009 (UTC) | : Come on, I'm still to change a thing and you're already thinking about leaving. A bit too hostile. Please believe me, I'll resolve this matter in a most smooth manner possible! :) --[[User:Ngng|Ngng]] 19:52, September 22, 2009 (UTC) | ||
== Keeping up and finishing... == | |||
• first: you completely left out my "plugin recommendations" and "performance tips" info :( | |||
: They're still in the box. | |||
• second: the example page contains only an infobox for one single region currently, imagine the page with all three region boxes in it. it will instantly be longer and harder to read than my version, without even providing more info. | |||
: I'm balancing now on the verge of leaving only one infobox per game, so the comment field will provide any necessary info (if it's necessary). | |||
• third: i had a look at the page code and wow, your template is getting more and more complex with every revision. perhaps you think a bit different about that, but you are the author of it, try to see it from my, the editor's/reader's perspective. you will need quite some comment lines to explain all the fields that can be filled out, and it would take considerably less time and code lines to just explain basic wiki to the editors instead. and i guarantee you, that will not be the last revision of it ;) is it extensible, btw, e.g. would issue10/11/12/n work, too? | |||
:Yes, but I'm having some second thoughts about issues at all. Do we really need them? The prefered way for me is to set up the comment (it can be long and can contain any kind of formatted text like yours) as it was done earlier. So IF the author WANT to set some extensive comments he or she will write them to the field provided formatting them anyhow they want. | |||
• fourth: you currently focus too much on the needs of your editors by trying to template the whole game page, but more important is the perspective of the visitor, your wiki audience. formatting is very subjective, i don't want to argue on that, but i think you are disregarding the need for a readable page layout too much at the moment. the infobox tables in their current state "break" the whole layout of the text body of a page: first the introduction in usual wiki style, then the infobox tables for all the regions of the game and then back to the common wiki style for the "known issues". i know that this is not a question of hard facts, but my eyes surely don't like these breaks. | |||
:Yes, that's why I'll remove them completely. As I said before these are not the articles we're talking about here. These are the static tables. Articles about PCSX2 should be of the ordinary text. And that will be much more appropriate both for visitor whose seeking to find info on various games in the same places and for editors. | |||
• fifth: probably the most principle and most important aspect, you're currently trying to create a "template to cover them all" (shameless "lord of the rings" reference :D ), but you cannot succeed in that. because if you would, then you would have created a whole wiki inside a wiki, just with unnecessary limitations. and then you could just use the original wiki instead of your templated one. what you don't seem to see is, that the template you're craving for is already there: it's called the wiki ;) the wiki we are all currently editing already is the template, the toolbox, that enables us to easily gather, sort, connect and present the info. which doesn't mean, that you shouldn't extend it with your own templates, but only for those cases where such a template is a useful addition to the already exisiting tools, like with the infoboxes on the right. i'm absolutely on your side when you think that my page needs quite some work to be a useful template, but i think that your template is an unnecessary attempt to kind of "reinvent" the wiki itself, and your recent extension to your template made me even more convinced of that ;) | |||
:I disagree here. I'm not inventing anything, I'm presenting the static tables somehow. | |||
• sixth: on your centralized "housekeeping", that is a nice feature for you the owner alone, but as long as it limits the editing possibilities and makes the info harder to find, it's not a nice feature for your editors and readers. and please, don't always assume that the amount of attention for many game articles will be that low, how can you know that before even trying? it will grow with time just like any wiki, if you are forcing it to be finished in some weeks by limiting all game pages to a game card, then it's no wiki, period. organic, or as you might say "chaotic", growth is not only unavoidable, it's the soul of a wiki. of course there will be differences between the articles, noone is forced to use your current template either and would still be able to create a useful game page from scratch, right? would you just delete or completely overwrite her/his submission then? | |||
:No, I will not do that, if the submission will be of a good value (not vandalism), I'll convert it and the user will understand how it should be done here. You must understand that every house has some rules/restrictions. Try to reedit a popular article in Wikipedia on your taste, deleting some parts changing the others -> breaking the style of the beast. Either you will be marked as a vandal or will be told to cease and your changes will be reverted in a second. I'm trying to keep this house as smooth for everyone as possible, you must understand me and accept it. Please. | |||
• btw, i like the TOC, as it allows one to directly link to subsections of the page, like http://pcsx2.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X_zero29#Known_Issues e.g. | |||
:You can still link without the TOC. It's linked to headers not the TOC itself. | |||
• damn, almost forgot: the issues i included for ffx are just the most popular thread topics for this game, they are posted several times a week. i think that the ability to link to this wiki for those "more than only known issues" would be a nice feature over repeating the same solutions again and again. i would really like to see at least some of the game pages here as game specific faqs, that was my aim with the ffx page. not all games need this amount of info, right, but games like gt4, persona or gears of war e.g. do, imo. if we all take our time to create high-quality pages with all the available info in them, i'm quite sure that referring to this wiki could become almost semi-official. -- zero29 19:14, September 22, 2009 (UTC) | |||
:You can create any FAQ for your taste, it is always a good idea. And those issues can still be placed in comment section of infobox in full. But the only thing I'm really asking of you is that you have to accept my vision. Not on tables and such but a vision about housekeeping. There's a host and there're guests. Guests can do anything they like apart from breaking the windows and burning the house down. I have some hosting experience, I'm happy to have a guest that want to make the house better. The thing is: I've made my house painted in blue with the golded doors and the big brown roof, it's looking quite beautiful in the morning from the seaside. I've choosen the acute triangle for the shape of the attic and have made some additional changes to its design. Lets just keep it that way, ok? And I'll go make good some tea... --[[User:Ngng|Ngng]] 20:45, September 22, 2009 (UTC) | |||